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Posted by ProCOM
on September 14, 2007 – 12:00 am - 27,851 views

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In no particular order 55 reasons for me to do “tableless” websites using valid XHTML for markup, CSS for layout and Flash sparingly, only as an ingredient. By tableless I mean avoiding tables (or a tagsoup of unnecessary divs substituting table trs and tds) for layout purposes and aiming towards as semantic markup as possible. Some of the reasons are “over HTML”, some “over Flash full monty” and some over both.
I know this topic has been discussed a plenty, I just needed to reaffirm myself :)
Here we go:
- You can get free links from showcase sites like zengarden, stylegala, cssimport or cssbeauty
- You don’t have to spend extra thought and time deciding on styling the mark up of your document (upper- or lowercase, quotes or no quotes on attributes)
- You don’t need to spend extra thought on which tags should be closed and which can (or should) be left open
- You “help” the search engines to deliver more relevant content using semantic markup
- You can save in bandwidth costs and visitors will see them faster by making slimmer pages
- It’s going to be easier for you to switch to XHTML 2.0 which will give you more semantic tools
- Once you’ve practised enough, coding pages becomes a whole lot simpler and faster than any table/tr/td tagsoup
- When the coding is faster you can spend more time on thinking about the user experience
- Thinking about semantics of a document helps you to make design and information architecture decisions
- You can quickly make a dummy site to test your sites information architecture and append a look and feel later with only minor code changes
- You can do the design after most of the backend is done which will help your client (or boss) to think realistically about how much work is still needed
- It’s possible to link directly to your content pages (compared to Flash)
- browser controls like text-size and back and forward buttons work (compared to Flash)
- Redesigns and realigns over the whole site are simpler
- it’s simpler to make small last minute changes to your designs
- Clean markup makes it easier or even unnecessary to build a CMS
- Clean markup makes it easier for another developer to jump on board
- You can make the backend almost totally independently from the frontend design, by completely different person
- You have plenty of ways to play with the markup trying to optimize for search engines, without affecting visible layout
- You have total control on print layouts of your pages
- Your sites are automatically accessible to all kinds of browsers
- Promoting web standards will help your work in the future, not having to code differently to each browser
- With all elemets closed you mark up look cleaner
- Well-formed code ensures your site works in more browsers
- Well-formed code would help browser coders to spend more time on useful features than rendering engines that try to understand borken code
- Your website will work in future browsers
- Your website works in mobile (and other new) devices
- You learn the basics of XML which has many other uses
- CSS files are saved in browser cache for fast retrieval and less bandwidth use
- Your documents are easy to convert back and forth another format using XSLT
- Thinking semantics makes you think more about the content
- Learning semantics makes you appreciate organization and write your other documents (even emails) in more organized way
- You can write new technologies in your CV or portfolio
- Modern browsers render a valid document faster
- You feel better about yourself when you are making sites “the right way”
- They are doing it: Dan Cederholm, Jeffrey Zeldman, Jason Santa Maria, Shaun Inman, Cameron Moll, Douglas Bowman, Dave Shea…
- You will belong in a “movement”, make good contacts etc.
- You learn to appreciate newer browsers which makes for more competition and later for better browsers
- Blink tag is gone
- Strict coding makes you learn to see mistakes quicker
- You can aim to making some money writing a book about it
- There are more job opportunities if you know these new ways
- You learn better to understand how a browser works
- You can use hacks and techniques with cool names like “be nice to Opera”
- you start to care more about metadata, document and character types
- With more people making slimmer pages, the amount of data moving in the whole web will be smaller and all connections faster
- XHTML has a cooler name than HTML
- There are more people thinking about the advantages and disadvantages and coding tricks of XHTML which makes for a bigger learning forum
- You can use basically same markup template for many different websites
- Learning to read and write it fast makes it possible to use cheaper tools (notepad)
- Google knows this:
- 4,380,000 xhtml better than html > 4,370,000 html better than xhtml
- 206 “xhtml is better than html” > 87 “html is better than xhtml”
- 2,130,000 xhtml sucks < 10,300,000 html sucks
- When all browsers start to understand the correct MIME-type (xml), you don’t have to convert all your websites from html, just to switch to correct MIME
- By more people using xhtml you ensure that in the future IE will need to understand the correct MIME-type
- Accessibility is enforced with requiring Alt attribute for images
- There just aren’t this many reasons to use HTML or entirely Flash instead
Filed Under: CSS, HTML, Javascript, Opinions, Quick Tips, SEO, Tutorials, WEB, Web Design, Web Resources, XML
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56 Responses
Code in XHTML/CSS | Karol Krizka
September 16th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
1[…] If you want more reasons about why switch to XHTML, look through Porgrammi.com’s list […]
Mark
September 17th, 2007 at 8:43 am
2Exactly! That’s why I create my websites in CSS only nowadays :)
Hemebond
September 17th, 2007 at 9:37 am
3Points 52 and 53 clearly indicate you don’t know what you’re talking about.
bmw
September 17th, 2007 at 9:48 am
4yes, it is supported by w3,
and tables are the most important element in coding…
JoeBob
September 17th, 2007 at 10:24 am
556. You get to make egotistical and holier than thou lists like this one.
South
September 17th, 2007 at 10:39 am
6Neat list, thanks. Hemebond makes a valid point regarding 52 and 53. What have MIME types got to do with CSS?
Stephan Beal
September 17th, 2007 at 10:44 am
7Hiya! Some comments on some of your points:
#2: attribute quoting isn’t a question: it is required per the standard.
#5: the slimmed-down part is largely moved into XSLT and/or CSS. (XSLT is
NOT slim.)
#10, #14: with proper HTML habits, you can do the same in HTML.
#21: except old ones which cannot handle .XML files.
#24, #25: ditto for HTML
#26: but not in some of today’s browsers, nor yesterday’s. Believe it or not, MSIE 5.x is still common in many enterprise environments.
#29: cache causes no end of headache for web designers, and cached users after a site is updated.
#34: ditto for HTML.
#35: there is nothing “more right” about XHTML compared to HTML.
#38: and you learn to ignore today’s/yesterday’s browsers.
#40: could be said for ANY language, e.g. HTML.
#41: what the world needs now is YET another book on XHTML.
#43: there is no difference in how much you have to know about a browser works when working with XHTML or HTML.
#44: so what’s the point of being “future-compatible” if you’re forced to also be compatible with fringe-market, incompatible, and non-compliant browsers?
#47: this is a non-issue/irrelevant point.
#48: there are CURRENTLY more people doing so. HTML has been around since the early 90’s, and therefore currently has MUCH more literature about these types of issues.
#49: again, with proper HTML habits, the same can be done in HTML/PHP/ASP.
#50: ditto for ANY markup or programming language, including HTML. i’ve been writing HTML in plain text editors since HTML 1.0, and i have never spent a dime on HTML editor tools (nor have i used stolen copies of Dreamweaver).
#51a: this is a margin of less than 1% - statistically useless.
#51c: HTML has been around more than 5 times longer than XHTML, so these average out to the same.
#53: again: if future compatibility is such a strong point, why fuss over MSIE’s incompatibilities?
#54: the ALT tag does very little for accessibility. It only provides an alternate label. By REQUIRING it, authors are forced to put any old junk in there, normally the file’s name (which obviously doesn’t help the user much).
#55: Wrong. HTML has been around for some 26 years and has LOTS more support out there than XHTML does. Real-world web sites must be compatible with their audience’s browsers or they won’t be accessible to their audience. That means they’ll die off.
While XHTML is “the future”, it is not supported widespread enough TODAY to justify it’s use for most mainstream sites, nor for most intranet/internal web apps (which often have to support MSIE4.x, believe it or not).
rupert
September 17th, 2007 at 10:46 am
8With all due respect, and I agree with most points in your list, not only does your site NOT validate at validator.w3c.org, it has 88 errors in it.
Honestly, producing valid code is step 1 in xhtml/css.
There’s a wicked toolbar for firefox called web developer toolbar. It has hot-key combos for things like validating; allows real-time editing of css and xhtml, outlines styled elements and tags them visually, etc etc. Give it a shot; for CSS and XHTML, it is invaluable.
Blog - TenMonkey Online!
September 17th, 2007 at 11:01 am
9[…] http://www.programimi.com/2007/09/14/55-reasons-to-design-in-xhtml-css/ […]
Stephan Beal
September 17th, 2007 at 11:24 am
10[quote post=”464″]#55: HTML has been around for some 26 years .[/quote]
My math was way off there. That should have said 16 years (assuming 1991 is the start, which might not be technically correct).
Ewan
September 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
11Nice article man, great read!
55 ?????? ???????????? XHTML-CSS ??? ???????? ?????? - Perfectomania Blog
September 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
12[…] ??????? ?????? «55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS». […]
55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS « v1ruz blog
September 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
13[…] read more | digg story Posted by v1ruz Filed in Uncategorized […]
Jennifer
September 17th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
14Did you know that there are many sites that give excellent reasons for not developing in xhtml? Doing a quick search on google pulled up the following: http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml .
In reality, most of the xhtml tags can be used in html. Also, as long as you validate your code (stylesheets and html), you should be fine.
Charlie
September 17th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
15Till the day that ALL browsers fully support CSS, I will not use it for layout. I do use Css for coloring and such but tables work fine for me. And the fact is that the arguments for CSS over tables aren’t strong enough to switch over to process that is more likely to be buggy, easy to turn off and all around treated differently by every browser.
Sure it’s cleaner but it really takes longer to code and makes working with someone elses code a nightmare.
Charlie
September 17th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
16Oh, one more thing, I really doubt that XHTML is the future. HTML 4.0 was born out of the general dislike of XHTML
HTML Editor Reviews » Del.icio.us Links for Sep 17, 2007
September 17th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
17[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS In no particular order 55 reasons for me to do “tableless” websites using valid XHTML for markup, CSS for layout and Flash sparingly, only as an ingredient. (tags: xhtml webdesign CSS) 09-17-2007 | 11:21 am […]
kurrent
September 17th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
18this list is completely, utterly, and totally fucking horrible.
55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS « inkspire
September 17th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
19[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS […]
Derek
September 18th, 2007 at 1:56 am
20#12 and #13 are both wrong; Flash supports direct page links and browser back/forward navigation.
55 razones para diseñar con XHTML-CSS « Quest’s Blog
September 18th, 2007 at 2:33 am
21[…] 17, 2007 En Programimi publicaron una lista de 55 razones para diseñar con XHTML y CSS (en inglés), mostrando sus cualidades y beneficios. Lectura recomendada para aclarar un poco mas […]
links for 2007-09-18 at The New Reader
September 18th, 2007 at 3:24 am
22[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS (tags: css webdesign xhtml design web layout) Published by ichen September 18th, 2007 in General […]
55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS
September 18th, 2007 at 5:34 am
23[…] read more | digg story […]
» 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS
September 18th, 2007 at 5:44 am
24[…] read more | digg story Uncategorized […]
ergh.org/blog - rat's ramblings
September 18th, 2007 at 6:22 am
25links for 2007-09-18 - Almost, Not Yet by Michael Koby
September 18th, 2007 at 6:24 am
26[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS In no particular order 55 reasons for me to do “tableless” websites using valid XHTML for markup, CSS for layout and Flash sparingly, only as an ingredient. By tableless I mean avoiding tables (or a tagsoup of unnecessary divs substituting table trs a (tags: digg Design Technology) […]
lovehatebot
September 18th, 2007 at 7:24 am
27For now, you can use css and tables and get the best of both. To get tableless css correct on every browser adds unjustifiable dev time, unless your client shits money.
55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS « Dreamwalkn in Vermont
September 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
28[…] Sep 18th, 2007 by dreamwalkn http://www.programimi.com/2007/09/14/55-reasons-to-design-in-xhtml-css/ […]
Aneurin
September 18th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
29Hi, I felt I should add my 2 cents for those that use tables. For the last few years I have been working purely in CSS and XHTML (traditionally transitional 1.0, but I have begun working towards strict 1.0 recently) and I feel I achieve pretty good results. I am by no means a masterful web or graphic designer but I feel I do a pretty good job and I have produced this website, including a hell of a lot of backend, in valid XHTML/CSS and nothing more except a couple of dynamic flash plugins for embedding video.
(Image link) http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8611/picture1by5.png
The website is not yet online, but you can see that I achieved a quite nice layout and design with no tables (I am willing to demonstrate source if anyone doubts this, once my client tells me to put it online).
If you take some time to learn to use CSS effectively then it can save literally many, many hours of development time, regardless of how comfortable you are with tables. Good CSS displays consistently across multiple browsers; and if necessary due to an Internet Explorer crapism you can simply use the !important workaround to get IE to display properly without affecting the output of more compliant browsers. It is also much more search engine and disability friendly (eg. source readers for the blind) and it improves your website’s accessibility. (Ok I will agree that a video or photo website for example isn’t necessarily targeted at blind people anyway - but it is still good practise.)
Changing the subject back to the actual blog post now. There are plenty of good reasons to use CSS over tables, more than 55 I expect, but quite a few of the reasons here are poorly reasoned and/or are not supported by any research/technical knowledge. Your point 51, for instance, is this:
… 206 “xhtml is better than html” > 87 “html is better than xhtml” …
I can’t say that with silly statements like this that I can take your list seriously at all. Thusly, I haven’t bothered to read it all the way through. (I read that one because, featuring a list object, it stood out.) Maybe your intention was to come across as light-hearted and mirthful but I personally see it as elitist, and I interpret the way you have written this article as if you are saying “CSS is better than tables, and I don’t need to justify that statement”. Joke or not, I think you have misfired by quite a margin. There are good reasons for using CSS; but as far as I can tell, you don’t really seem to know the difference between those good reasons, relevant reasons, and your own superiorist posturing.
Aneurin
September 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
30Sorry, I’ve just spotted this point:
#35 You feel better about yourself when you are making sites “the right way”
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. This point alone makes your entire list completely redundant.
Akira Ohgaki
September 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
31rj
September 18th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
32Kurrent, You are a tool. The list may not be perfect but it was a useful, good read, unlike your comment.
impostor
September 18th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
33You don’t know what are you talking about. Jennifer posted a great link about xhtml vs html.
html + css is the way to go, but NOT xhtml + css.
links for 2007-09-18 « toonz
September 19th, 2007 at 12:25 am
34[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS (tags: CSS xhtml layout article) […]
55 buenas razones para usar estándares de HTML y CSS — michaelmuller.net | Diseño y Desarrollo Web
September 19th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
35[…] Artículo completo en: http://www.programimi.com/ […]
Robert H. Goretsky
September 20th, 2007 at 1:03 am
36I’ve thought a lot recently about what a pain it is to design a visually appealing page using the rigidity of HTML tables, but haven’t fully explored the pure-CSS route. Besides the free links mentioned above, are there any good free tutorials available on this? Comment by Robert H. Goretsky of Hoboken, NJ
frivolous motion
September 20th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
37A Web Developer/Graphic Designer who rocks at designing and being a computer geek » Blog Archive » 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS
September 20th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
38[…] read more | digg story […]
serogas
September 21st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
3955 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS ??? 55 ?????? ???????????? XHTML-CSS ??? ???????? ??????
September 21st, 2007 at 4:26 pm
40[…] ???????? ????????? ????? ?????????? ?????? 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS ? 16 ?? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? 55 ?????? […]
?? XHTML+CSS ????? 55 ??? - ????
September 21st, 2007 at 6:26 pm
41[…] ???????????55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS???????? […]
??????????
September 24th, 2007 at 3:14 am
42DesignShrine Turnkey Websites Official Blog on Design
September 24th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
43[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS Posted by: admin in Web Design September 14, 2007 – 12:00 am | by ProCOM […]
Missing Features » Reason #56: Standards Help Usability
September 25th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
44[…] Source: ProgramimiCOM blog, September 24, 2007 Full story: 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS […]
The VultureKraft
September 26th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
4555 razones para diseñar en XHTML y CSS
September 27th, 2007 at 7:58 am
46[…] porque se nos hacia la manera más sencilla. Pero paso el tiempo y nuestro estilo fue cambiando. En Programimi he podido ver una extensa lista con 55 puntos que te indican porque debimos abandonar esta […]
?? XHTML+CSS ????? 55 ??? 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS | lidecheng's weblog
October 6th, 2007 at 8:44 am
47[…] ?????55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS […]
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October 11th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
48[…] Ñтатьи «55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS». ПоÑтоÑнный Ð°Ð´Ñ€ÐµÑ Ð¿ÐµÑ€ÐµÐ²Ð¾Ð´Ð° Ñтатьи […]
Leave table-ridden designs behind! « Chocolate Flavoured Ice Cream
October 15th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
49[…] 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS - ProgramimiCOM […]
World Design O! » 55 Reasons to Design in XHTML-CSS
November 7th, 2007 at 11:56 am
50[…] read more | digg story […]
freelancer
November 12th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
51Nowadays you’ll need a lot of time and/or some hacks to design middle complexity site which looks similar in IE and Firefox. Maybe some day browsers would understand CSS in the same way. When the time comes, i’ll start implementing CSS only layouts. Do you think http://google.com uses tables because they do not know CSS? No, that is because tables are safer to use, as they look similar in most browsers.
my writings
December 24th, 2007 at 4:37 am
5255 reasons to design in XHTML and CSS | ARTEgami in English
January 9th, 2008 at 8:25 am
53[…] just to make life a little bit easier. Time passed and as things changed, everything changed. In Programimi I was able to see an extensive list of 55 points that tell you why we should avoid this practice. […]
XHTML+CSS???55??? | ???
March 12th, 2008 at 8:43 am
5455 ?????? ???????????? XHTML-CSS ??? ???????? ?????? / ???-????????? / ????? / ???????
March 27th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
55TechBlogy
April 18th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
56Bloglah.org: Malaysia bloggers community
April 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
57Meta Novus - Blog Headlines and News, the Net Refreshed
April 29th, 2008 at 6:20 am
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